Check out Sabin's review of the system LE received!
I have built a PC as a charitable donation for a YouTube channel I like, namely Learn Engineering (LE for short). LE produces high quality educational videos which explain complex engineering topics in a simple manner, with the intention of fostering wider enthusiasm for engineering in general. The guys who create these videos work for an engineering company in Pune, India (so the shipping cost alone is a relevant factor, which in the event turned out to be 130 UKP by courier).
One can support LE directly on Patreon (I signed up; look for me at the end of their newer videos, I'm wearing an eBid T-shirt), but I decided I wanted to help much more directly. The reason for this is that I have long believed the field of engineering, along with related sciences & disciplines such as materials science, is sorely undervalued in the modern world, often pushed aside by other fields which garner greater publicity and funding, so I couldn't pass up the chance to help out. After talking at length with Sabin Mathew at LE, I concluded that even a moderate spend on a careful selection of parts (most used, some new) would produce a far better system than they have at the moment. Of course it would be great to send them something totally up to date like an X299 system or even a dual-XEON, but cost-wise that's not viable.
The aim of this page is to appeal for help from others to assist in covering the cost of what I'm building for LE, whether that's in the form of direct monetary donations, parts I can use in the build itself, or absolutely anything at all which I can sell to help fund the parts I want to buy. I now have all of the parts for the build (using a motherboard based on the Intel X79 chipset), I just need to sort out the overclock config and the OS setup; even so, the more help I receive with this, the less I'll have to eat noodles. :D I have considerable experience building PCs from used hardware (I do lots of benchmarking), offering as it can a way to gain access to good performance for a greatly reduced budget target, the key being to exploit the previous generation of high-end tech which used to be very expensive. Naturally though for this build I will make no profit at all.
I originally wanted to send the system to LE during Sept. 2016, but alas family events meant this was impossible; atm I plan on shipping the system before the end of Nov/2017. Many of the parts I had already bought, intending to use them for systems I was going to sell, but I'm using them for this donated build instead; this includes the motherboard, CPU, case, disks, one of the SSDs, fans and PSU, though some of these were changed as the build progressed. Other parts I've bought in more recent times. Note that I don't have any specific target as such as to how much to raise, since I'm going to send them the system anyway, but clearly the more I can raise the easier it will be on my own pockets. If I should end up with a surplus, I'll use whatever's left over either to increase the spec, or for some future charity build instead (I'm sure I'll help other channels aswell). Perhaps I could grow this idea over time into a regular thing, who knows.
LE's current system is a generic HP box with an i3 CPU, 4GB 1600MHz RAM, NVIDIA GT 610 2GB and 500GB mechanical C-drive. They use Blender, GIMP and Camtasia to produce the engineering videos. Aside from the low-end CPU, low RAM and lack of an SSD (essential for a modern, responsive PC these days), the GPU is particularly weak. For those familiar with Blender, the GT 610 takes almost 31 minutes to compute the Blender BMW test, while rendering the test scene on their i3 CPU takes more than 9 minutes (their system scores 347 for the Cinebench R15 CPU render test; the system I've built for them scores 1389). Or to put it another way, the GT 610 is the second slowest GPU listed on the Octane Render benchmark page. :|
My goal was to send them something with at least double the CPU rendering performance (in the event it was four times faster), but more importantly a system with far greater GPU speed, especially for GPU accelerated rendering in Blender, achieved by installing more than one GPU (the two GTX 980s I fitted are about two orders of magnitude faster than their existing GT 610). The system will also have a lot more RAM, SSDs, Enterprise SATA storage, provision for easy system backup and some other extras I'll mention later.
In reality, the LE guy used the CPU in their HP system for rendering in Blender. The system I sent them is seven times faster by utilising GPU rendering on the two GTX 980s.
Parts Donations To Use Or Sell
See below for the build I've done; I welcome any item at all which I can sell to help fund this build (does not have to be computer related). So far one person has supplied some SGI RAM (some of which I've already sold on forums.nekochan.net), another has sent me some old PC gfx cards to sell, and of course I'm going to wade through my own stuff to see what I can sell off (I have at least two dozen items to add to the for-sale list below). Please contact me by email or phone if you can help (details above, or my full contact info page is here). I suspect this is probably the easiest way most people may be able to assist with this build.
You can use PayPal (feel free to send whatever you wish to my new paypal.me address), bank transfer, cheque, etc. Please contact me by email or phone for details.
Item New/Used Cost (UKP) Antec 302 Case Used 45 Akasa Soundproofing material for side panels New 15 Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W Modular PSU Used 55 ASUS P9X79 WS Motherboard (X79 chipset) Used 168 Intel 10-core XEON E5-2680 v2 (3.1GHz Turbo default) Used 165 Corsair H80 CPU Water Cooler + 2x NDS 120mm PWM Used 48 GSkill 8x4GB DDR3/2133MHz CL11 RipjawsZ RAM Used 142 Palit GTX 980 4GB Reference, main display Used 215 EVGA GTX 980 4GB Reference, extra CUDA Used 216 Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (C-drive) Used 53 Micron C400 256GB (backup of C-drive) Used 46 OCZ Vertex4 128GB SSD (Paging/Scratch) Used 25 Samsung SM951 M.2 256GB PCIe NVMe SSD (scratch) New 80 Akasa M.2 to PCIe adapter card with custom heatsink New 15 2x Seagate Enterprise ES.3 2TB SATA New 120 Seagate Enterprise ES.3 1TB SATA Used 29 Hitachi Deskstar 4TB SATA Used 68 Video-2-PC Analogue video USB capture kit New 35 Upper case intake fan (NDS 140mm PWM) New 10 5x Front/side/etc. fans (Corsair) New 25 Antec F8 8cm fan (chipset cooling) New 6 Startech 3.5"/5.25" front bay adapter New 4 Akasa 2.5" HotSwap Mobile Rack New 30 DVDRW drive New 15 BenQ GW2765HE 27" 2560x1440 IPS monitor New 210 Shipping cost to India via Landmark Global - 130 ---------- 1970 UKP
NB: If I was building all this using the latest equivalent technology from all-new parts, the cost would be well over 3000 UKP. As it is, the above system should be very potent, and a huge improvement over their existing PC. Note that when I first wrote this summary I suggested that the original 3930K would give a Cinebench R15 score of around 1100, but fitting the XEON instead has improved on this greatly, resulting in a final score of 1386 (that's faster than a stock Coffee Lake 8700K); see my benchmark page for comparisons, and note the page should be viewed with Page Style set to None from the View menu in your browser.
PC Case (Antec 302)
I'm very familiar with Antec 300/302 cases, I've used them in numerous builds. The 302 has an extra side panel grill behind the motherboard so one can fit a fan specifically for cooling the underside of the motherboard. Since the PC will be used in a warm environment, the added cooling will help. Despite liking the 302 case though, I've never liked Antec's fans, so I replace them with better models, usually Nanoxia Deep Silence (NDS) or Corsair fans (both are low-noise; NDS are almost as good as Nanoxia but are 50% cheaper). The upper intake fan inparticular is replaced with an NDS 140mm PWM (works better, but less noise). Note the 2nd picture above was taken before I cleaned the case.
Soundproofing (Akasa Paxmate)
Noise in a working environment is always annoying. I always fit Akasa noise reduction foam to help minimise noise output from PCs I build (not taken a picture of the box yet, will do that later).
Note that now Sabin has received the system, I can confirm it is running very quiet.
PSU (Thermaltake Toughpower 1000W Modular)
For many years now I've been using 2nd-hand Thermaltake Toughpower PSUs for PC builds, they have been utterly reliable. As with all the used parts in this build, I completely clean the PSU before installation, and often replace the fan aswell. Note that as mentioned originally, I did indeed decide to use a 1kW PSU afterall, mainly because the 850W model didn't have the right connectors to supply two GPUs, even though the total max power draw should be well within the capacity of an 850W. Sometimes required connectors and cabling are more important. Also, the extra connectors mean the system could be expanded in the future with an extra GPU of some kind, assuming the LE guys' office isn't too warm.
Motherboard (ASUS P9X79 WS)
As a result of Gigabyte's beta BIOS bricking the UD5 board I was originally going to use, I have upped the ante somewhat by replacing it with an ASUS P9X79 WS (I briefly replaced the Gigabyte with an Asrock Z68 board, but the WS became available not long after as a result of upgrading a friend's system). This is a top-end professional series board basically equivalent to the Rampage IV Extreme, except with a slightly different feature set (though it has most of the same overclocking options). This would originally have been an expensive board (over 300 UKP), but I obtained it a while ago from an ASUS refurb dealer for a good price (150 UKP). It didn't come with any accessories (hence the low cost), I just had to source an I/O shield which was easy enough (18 UKP, bought via ebay US)..
Earlier I had a 3930K on the board which, after overclocking, would have meant more heat to deal with, but using a XEON means this is no longer an issue at all. Indeed the fans on the H80 will probably never spin up much at all (under load, CPU temps don't go over 45C with a room ambient of 20C). Since the LE guys' office is likely to be rather warm, this switch to a low-heat XEON is a wise move.
Note the original UD5 setup was to have included a VideoMate C500 SD PCI capture card, but this was not compatible with the UD5, and the X79 board doesn't have any normal PCI slots, so the C500 is not part of the build anymore. Ah well, the LE guys can always add a PCIe capture card later if they wish (plenty of spare slots), eg. something from BlackMagic Design.
Here are a few pictures of the ASUS P9X79 WS board installed in the system (these were taken before the SM951 was fitted and before the XEON upgrade):
Incidentally, to give you some idea how capable this board is, here's a picture of my CUDA research box, the same model mbd (with a 3930K @ 4.7 and 64GB RAM) but fitted with 4x MSI GTX 580 3GB (faster than two Titans). The P9X79 WS really can handle heavy loads no problem, so stability should be good with this setup, which is of course important for running complex animation renders.
One final thing worth mentioning, I did update the BIOS on the board to a moddded version which supports booting from PCIe NVMe devices such as the 960 Pro, SM961, etc. Thus, in the future, if they ever want to, the LE guys could replace the 840 Pro C-drive with something better (there's a spare slot on the board which would be suitable).
CPU (Intel 10-core XEON E5-2680 v2 @ 3.1GHz, with max 1-core Turbo of 3.6GHz)
After some battles trying to get a 4930K I obtained to work properly (gave up, returned for a refund; see the build log for details), I changed tack entirely and after much research decided a XEON was a better choice. Turns out availability of the 2600 v2 series is very good, and thus the cost quite low. I was originally going to use an i7 3930K, with an overclocked setup to achieve better performance, but with hindsight that would likely have introduced heat, noise and stability issues that could have become problematic in the future (4930K would have been the same).
Naturally, using a XEON instead of an i7 does mean a lower base clock, but this isn't a gaming system so single-core performance is far less relevant. Heat, noise, power, stability, etc. are higher priorities, while trying to maximise threaded performance to boost rendering and video encoding.
Also, since the 2680 v2 is an IvyBridge-EP part, it does provide PCIe 3.0 for the GPUs and PCIe SSD, which is good. Here is the Intel Ark info for the 2680 v2.
Note that even though a simple air cooler like a TRUE would be more than enough to cool this XEON, I'm still fitting the H80 AIO because this helps prevent transit damage, ie. an air cooler can wobble about too much which risks damaging the motherboard, but a water cooler is held firmly in place.
I did of course investigate using Ryzen, but the platform is not suitable (not enough RAM or PCIe slots, too expensive overall). If money was no object though then I'd be doing a Threadripper build for sure. :D But then we're talking 800 UKP just for the CPU. Besides, it's important to remember that the primary bottleneck for what the LE guys do is CUDA-based rendering in Blender (and video editing/encoding), and in that regard there is plenty of scope for upgrading the system, ie. just replace the GPUs with something better in the future.
CPU Cooler (Corsair H80 with Nanoxia Deep Silence 120mm PWM Fans)
I always use water coolers for my builds if I can, they are so much more effective than large air coolers, and make it much easier to manage the space inside a case. I was lucky to win a used H80 for a good price, which came with one Noctua NF-P12 120mm fan. Since this build was updated though to use an X79 mbd, which has extensive PWM fan headers, I decided it made more sense to use Nanoxia Deep Silence (NDS) PWM fans instead (the Noctua NF-P12 is only 3pin).
Most importantly, as mentioned already, using a water cooler ensures safe transport.
Chipset Cooling (Antec F8 with custom mounting)
Using an AIO water cooler does have one down side vs. an air cooler, namely the latter naturally blows some air across the mbd chipset, whereas this is not the case with an AIO WC. Thus, it is best to fit an extra fan to deliberately blow some air over the mbd chipset. An Antec F8 is ideal for this. Sometimes a case design might mean the top fan already provides enough air, but chipset heatsinks are such that the air may not be able to flow where it's needed. Thus, an F8 can force some of the air coming down into the case to blow onto the chipset heatsink next to the main ATX connector, and also onto the RAM modules in that area.
How to mount the fan though? Turns out that just infront of the mbd are two very conveniently positioned holes in the case chassis, exactly the width apart of the holes on one side of an 8cm fan. I realised I could make some kind of supporting mechanism to hold the fan in position above the RAM modules. Thus, I employed a metal mbd support rod removed from an SGI Octane (square cross section), cut it to length in two pieces, modified the fan a bit at the corners (square indentations), attached the rods using superglue, then fitted plastic pieces to help give extra strength and hold them in place, again using superglue. Lastly, I attached some pieces of foam to the underside edge of the fan edges so that the plastic would not be resting directly on whatever is below (in this case, the RAM modules).
Re the 3rd and 4th pics above, in case you're wondering why the fan position looks slightly skewed, it's because I had to hold the metal rods in place by hand while the superglue was setting and I didn't hold them perfectly straight. :}
Memory (GSkill RipjawsZ 32GB [8x4GB] DDR3/2133, running at 1866MHz)
As a result of changing the build to use an X79 mbd, the RAM is now different aswell, namely a GSkill RipjawsZ 32GB (8x4GB) DDR3/2133 kit. The good thing about GSkill kits is the warranty is transferable, so if the LE guys ever have a problem then they can get a replacement kit, or send it back to me and I can deal with it. Picture coming soon, but see above for pics showing the RAM installed on the mbd. The switch to a XEON CPU did sadly mean having to reduce the RAM clock down to 1866MHz, but it doesn't seem to have affected performance, and I can likely tighten the existing 10/11/11/28/2T timings to compensate (not done this yet).
Primary GPU (Palit GTX 980 4GB Reference)
I originally considered fitting two GTX 580s, but the intention for the primary GPU was to have a card that has good standard 3D/viewport speed. The GTX 580 is great for CUDA (due to various complex reasons I won't go into here), but newer cards are much faster for normal non- CUDA 3D tasks, which of course includes games, but certainly working with 3D models in Blender aswell. Originally I listed a GTX 970 as being the card I wanted to obtain, and indeed a GTX 970 is about 2X faster than a 580 for normal 3D, so a 970 was a sensible minimum target. However, further price drops in typical used GTX 980s meant I decided to try and obtain a GTX 980 instead (it's not much more, and the extra performance is fairly significant). Also, I don't know if the 970's split memory design would hinder the way in which Blender works if the available 4GB RAM was being almost entirely used, but I figure it's best to be certain (I know the design has virtually no effect on gaming, but pro tasks often behave differently).
Thus, I obtained a GTX 980. I was also successful in obtaining a second GTX 980 for the extra CUDA card, for almost the same cost as the primary 980 (details below).
Note that reference cards are preferred here because such cards vent most of their waste heat directly out the back of the case, so the air inside the case going through the CPU cooler is unaffected. Non-reference 980s with aftermarket coolers are certainly faster (eg. the EVGA in my gaming PC runs at 1266MHz, vs. the typical 1127MHz of a reference edition), but they dump too much of their waste heat (in some cases all of it) inside the case, which would affect the CPU cooling. Managing temperatures and cooling in this build is very important, because the office environment in India where it will be used can get quite warm.
Of course it would be great to fit something even more powerful like a GTX 1080 or somesuch instead, but one must be realistic. However, at least my original speculation about 2nd-hand price drops making 980s affordable turned out to be correct, though it's possible the supply is starting to dry up now; I noticed that people seemed if anything to be bidding slightly more for reference cooler 980s compared to a few weeks ago, so lack of supply may be forcing up perceived value even if newer products ought to be making used 980s cheaper (the 2nd-hand market is still subject to the laws of supply & demand). Update: not long after writing this text, someone won a reference 980 auction on eBay for the crazy sum of 275 UKP, which is almost as much as people had been bidding on the lower side for 980 Ti cards. More recently, the Etherium mining craze has pushed up all used GPU prices, so I was lucky to get the two 980s when I did.
Note I am using NVIDIA cards because the drivers are more reliable, and the CUDA acceleration in Blender is more complete and faster than OpenCL. The power consumption is also better. AMD has come a long way with its compute performance in recent years, but it's not quite there yet, and driver reliability is still an issue.
Secondary CUDA GPU (EVGA GTX 980 4GB Reference)
Happy to report I was able to win a second GTX 980 auction for 216 UKP, an almost identical cost to the primary GPU. This does increase the cost somewhat, but it means much better CUDA rendering performance overall.
Rendering performance in Blender is very important for the work LE does. I originally began this project with two GTX 580s in mind, because they're so strong for CUDA but are reasonably cheap, but over time I decided that something far more power efficient and cooler would be better given the warm environment where the PC will be used. And at least having two 980s means all aspects of processing will have the same higher 4GB VRAM limit (the 580s I'd originally planned on using only have 3GB). Just for reference though, my own CUDA research machine (which is faster than two Titan Blacks) has four GTX 580 3GB cards. A 580 is faster than all the 600 series cards for CUDA, and the only 700 series cards which beat it are the 780 Ti and Titan. By comparison, a good GTX 980 is about 10% slower than two 580s combined, the latter being quicker than a Titan. However, depsite the low cost of 580s and potent performance, they're best used where heat issues are less of a concern, and the 580 does use quite a lot of power. Thus, I'm glad I will be able to fit two 980s, despite the higher initial cost (power consumption cannot be ignored here).
Two 980s will provide a huge speed increase for Blender rendering over LE's existing system. The relative performance of different GPU combinations can be compared using the OctaneBench, Arion and Blender BMW benchmarks. Overall, the two 980s combined provide about the same CUDA rendering performance as a single reference 1080 Ti for a much lower cost.
Note that the LE guys don't use the GPU in their existing HP system because it's too slow. They use the CPU instead. The system I supplied though has allowed them to do renders at least seven times faster via GPU rendering instead, though optimising the render settings is critical for best performance (mainly, choosing sensible tile sizes, larger being generally better for GPU renderin, and also trying to avoid fractional tiles being processed).
C-Drive SSD (Samsung 840 Pro 256GB)
I won a used 840 Pro 256GB for a decent price. Of course it would be great to use a 500GB/512GB model, but that would cost much more, and make the backup SSD more expensive too. Besides, the idea of this build is to encourage data to be stored where it makes the most sense, so the C- drive does not have to be large.
Backup C-Drive SSD (Micron C400 256GB)
Reliable system/data backup is very important for any PC user. In this case the idea is to allow the LE guys to do a full C-drive clone backup to a 2nd SSD without having to power cycle the PC, via the use of a 2-bay trayless hotswap unit. The backup SSD is a Micron C400 256GB.
Windows Paging and Scratch Area SSD (OCZ Vertex4 128GB)
Windows always uses virtual memory in the form of a large paging file. Normally this uses up a lot of space on the C-drive, especially in systems with a lot of RAM. Thus, I like to fit a separate SSD to hold the paging file, the partition for which should be 1.5X the main RAM capacity (ie. in this case, 48GB for a system with 32GB RAM). This frees up the space on the C-drive and reduces the wear on the C-drive aswell. An OCZ Vertex4 128GB is ideal for this, given its high IOPS rating.
The unused space on the paging file SSD can then be used as a general scratch/temporary working area for everyday use, eg. a destination for reliable video capture, output from a render or video conversion, etc.
Video-editing and Render Scratch SSD (Samsung SM951 256GB)
I'm going to include a Samsung SM951 256GB PCIe NVMe SSD, held in an Akasa PCIe adapter. The LE guys can use this as the main working area for whatever video or animation data they are dealing with, eliminating any I/O bottlenecks. Once a piece of work is complete, the final results can be moved to one of the 2TB SATA drives for longer term storage.
I hadn't originally planned on adding this, but after the Gigabyte BIOS debacle I decided to beef up the spec a bit just as a sort of finger in the eye of the forces of entropy. :D
In the pics above, a heatsink is included to prevent thermal throttling (useful when copying large files); I moved the product label to the back of the adapter card.
Here are some benchmark screenshots from AS-SSD, ATTO and CDM using an SM951 on an ASUS Rampage IV Extreme (widen your browser window if necessary), different mbd but the same X79 chipset and Samsung 2.2 drivers, so the results should be basically the same:
I will install the SM951 after the CPU/RAM configuration and testing is completed.
Enterprise SATA Storage (Seagate 2TB/1TB ES.3)
Consumer mechanical drives (or rust spinners as I call them) are cheap, but this is for good reason, ie. lower reliability. Thus, I constantly try to obtain unused or barely used Enterprise SATA drives, which are fast but also a lot more reliable, and in many cases often still have valid end user warranties. The Seagate ES.3 series is perfect for this role, and I was able to obtain a couple of new drives for very good prices (half what they normally cost new).
The 1TB drive is for general data backup, eg. normal snapshot file images of the C-Drive, important user files, etc.
General SATA Storage (Hitachi Deskstar 4TB SATA)
I had an opportunity to bag a couple of Hitachi drives for a good price, so I decided what the heck! This should make the LE guys' ability to manage their data a bit more flexible, eg. they could use the two Seagate 2TB disks for their main storage, use the Hitachi for backup. Alas no picture, I forgot.
Video-2-PC DIY Analogue-SD-to-USB Video Capture Kit (seller link)
I would have preferred to include an HD capture kit, but I just couldn't find a product that was reportedly reliable. By contrast, this particular device works well, and the supplied software is genuinely easy to use (very rare these days). Thus, if the LE guys want to incorporate any kind of real life video into their youtube videos, then they can at least do that in SD.
Upper Case Intake Fan (NDS 140mm PWM)
The default Antec intake fan is not very good, so I replace it with something better. The NDS 140mm PWM costs half that of a Noctua but works almost as well, ie. good performance and low noise.
5x Front/Side/etc. Fans (Corsair/NDS)
Some of these fans have come from Corsair H80/H100 water cooling kits where I fitted NDS fans instead, so they're basically spare. Some models of Corsair fan can be rather loud, but I have several which are much better. Properly configured so that fans only spin up when temperature conditions demand it, the system should operate with optimal noise levels. The fan on the far side of the case is an NDS 120mm, while the two front fans and main side panel fan are all Corsair.
Startech 3.5"/5.25" Front Bay Adapter
This is used to hold the next item within a 5.25" drive bay.
Akasa 2.5" HotSwap Mobile Rack
Blimey, I forgot to update this section! As a result of adding an extra 4TB drive late in the day, there was no longer enough spare SATA ports to connect to two hot-swap bays, so I replaced the 2-bay Startech unit with a single-bay Akasa unit. I'll add pictures later.
This fits into a single 5.25" front bay and provides a hot-swap 2.5" trayless bay, ideal for C-drive backup or other temporary SATA device access.
I would fit a BDRW (bluray burner) but I don't think they need it and the cost is much higher. However, this might change later if I can find a decent used BDRW unit.
BenQ GW2765HE 27" QHD LED IPS Monitor (seller link)
Something I had planned from the very beginning was to provide the LE guys with a much better monitor, a type with good image quaity and a resolution high enough so that they could work with full HD video without having to use proxies. This of course meant an IPS panel at 2560x1440. I did initially obtain a Del U2711 off ebay for this purpose, for 150 UKP, but alas the unit had a fault, and time constraints meant I was unable to deal with the issue (I eventually gave it to a friend on the off chance he could fix it and use it for himself). In the end I concluded it made more sense just to buy a completely new unit, since pricing had come down to reasonable levels, ie. buying a used model wasn't really saving that much.
Naturally, safe packaging for a monitor is essential, especially since couriers generally won't provide damage cover for monitors (only total loss). This BenQ fit the bill nicely, so I hope the LE guys received it ok. I packed the original monitorbox inside an outerbox, so it should be well protected.
Misc Internal Cables
PWM fan splitter and extension cables are needed in order to connect various fans to the motherboard, while maintaining a tidy layout. An Auxiliary Motherboard power extension cable is used for similar reasons.
In addition to the various pics above, here are some more showing the installed storage devices, PSU connections (room for future expansion!), rear chassis cabling, etc., and how the side panels appear with the side fans connected before the panels are closed into position.
Comments, questions, suggestions, and of course donations/parts, all most welcome! 8)
PS. For those who may not know, I am based in Edinburgh, Scotland.
------------------- SGI Guru firstname.lastname@example.org +44 (0)131 476 0796 +44 (0)7434 635 121
My main worry was potential damage during shipping, but in the event (due to my nuke-proof packaging) the only minor issue was a single fan cable had come away from its fan-splitter connector, an easy enough fix. Sabin has uploaded a video about the system:
Note that Sabin didn't know I was sending him and his colleagues a monitor aswell, that was a last minute surprise. :D
Btw, one minor point about the video: the BMW render test Sabin mentions is comparing CPU-based rendering speed on their existing HP box (details at the top of this page) vs. GPU-based rendering speed on the system I sent. The LE guys don't use the GPU in their HP box for rendering as it's way too slow (the GT 610 is the 2nd slowest card listed on the Octane Benchmark page). For the curious, the XEON I put in the system would complete the BMW render in about 1m 53s, though it's also worth noting that running the test on the GPUs (2x GTX 980) can probably be speeded up further via optimised settings (small tile sizes are best for CPU rendering, but larger tile sizes are best for GPU rendering, eg. for the BMW test I use a tile size which splits the image into a 4x3 grid).
Anyway, I am delighted the system was received ok, There were of course a few things that fell by the wayside during the process of finalising all this. I had meant to include a pair of Logitech X140 speakers, but completely forgot when it came time to pack everything up, though with hindsight there's no way the speakers could have fitted in either of the boxes. Also, reading some of the comments on Sabin's video, I realise I never thought at all about a microphone for audio recording. I included a USB SD video capture dongle, which works well, but including a mic didn't occur to me. Audio isn't my field, I wouldn't know where to begin with respect to what is sensible for such tasks. However, I do have some movie company contacts, so I'll ask around, see if someone has an older (but still decent) studio mic they could donate.
Apart from that, the only other thing was that a few of the product packing boxes could not be included as there wasn't space in the two shipping boxes, namely those for the H80 cooler, some of the NDS fans and the Akasa memory card reader unit. Ah well, no matter. I normally do like to include all original product boxes if I can so that the recipient can more easily sell on items if/when they eventually decide to upgrade, etc.
So, this project is finally complete. It took a lot longer than originally anticipated, mainly due to repeated family events that sidetracked my time on multiple occasions, especially several family bereavements. Perhaps that's why I ended up sending a much better system than I'd originally intended, a poke in the eye of Murphy and his insidious law. :D
Best wishes all, and thanks for your support! I look forward to seeing what the LE guys can do in the future. In the meantime, I do have a great many more items to add to the for-sale section on this page (again, time has prevented me from writing them up), so I'll get back to listing them towards the end of this month; still hoping to cover a tad more of the cost if I can. :D My thanks to everyone who's contributed so far!!
The tracking info shows both boxes have reached the Customs dept. in India, Sabin is now trying to contact the relevant agency to arrange clearance. Almost there! 8)
My heavens, how quickly time flies! Apologies for the lateness of this update. Two further family bereavements after new year set back my plans for this project by quite a long while, plus some other family matters I had to deal with (helping an eldery relative). In the event, I wasn't able to get back to sorting out the system until May, then it took a while longer to find the right timing to pack and post it, which by now also included a monitor. Finally during the 3rd week of June I was able to get everything ready, so I posted the system and monitor on 21/Jun. 8) As I type this, the LE guys have not yet received it (probably being slowly processed through Indian Customs, which could take a while), but I will update this page as new info appears on the tracking site.
Note that the POST issue mentioned previously stopped occuring, and the compatibility issue I referred concerned the Dell monitor I initially obtained which turned out to be faulty (it would go into power saving and not recover), so as stated above I solved the monitor issue by virtue of just buying something new (a BenQ). The system works fine with the BenQ, and the desktop, etc. has all been setup ready to use.
The irony of this project now is that I've ended up wtih a significant collection of items to sell off to help pay for it, but I never had the time to get them listed. :D It did turn out to be a rather pricey venture I suppose, but I'm sure well worthwhile in terms of what the system will enable the LE guys to do with their work,
Note that it is of course easy to look at the above spec and point out the existence of CPUs such as Ryzen, but the modern high cost of DDR4 RAM and the huge spike in GPU pricing has meant that the system I put together continues to hold its own in terms of value and price/performance. Indeed, the CPU I fitted (the 10-core XEON) now tops my own benchmark results page for threaded performance. The later generic system the LE guys bought might be quicker for single threaded tasks, but for Blender rendering, video processing, etc., the XEON is a good choice and was well priced. Indeed, I upgraded my brother's gaming PC with the same CPU. :D What I particularly like is that, since it is not an overclocked system now, it runs nice and quiet, which certainly would not have been the case with an overclocked 3930K, and of course it means the power consumption is more sensible aswell, which means it'll be more efficient (and cope better with a warm working environment). An additional benefit of the XEON is that the model in question supports native PCIe 3.0, so the GTX 980s can run at full speed, which is good.
So, that's the project complete! The system is away. 8) I'll add some pictures later showing the final setup, and the stages of getting the PC and monitor packed up for posting by courier.
My thanks to all those who helped with this, donating parts to sell or indeed cash. I'll keep going with the items-for-sale thing though as I'm nowhere near covering the cost of the system at the moment. :D I have many more items to add to the list, but I won't be able to do that until late July as I'm away at the moment dealing with family matters.
Btw, I only noticed today that I forgot to upload this page after the last update in Dec/2017, sorry about that! :}
My plan to send the system before the xmas holidays went slightly askew. There was one more major item I wanted to include, which I did obtain, but there's a compatibility issue I need to resolve before it's ready to go (I don't want to mention it here so that it'll be a surprise). Meanwhile, the system itself has developed an odd habit of failing POST with a B6 code, which refers to Option ROM initialisation; not sure what's causing this, but I need to resolve it before posting. Could be something simple like one of the hard disks needs a firmware update, or perhaps the Marvell SATA3 controller needs updating. Either way, I'll get it sorted after xmas. Apart from this, the system is basically ready.
12/Oct/2017 (XEON Strikes Back!):
Getting the faulty 4930K replaced was a no-go, Intel couldn't help (the warranty expired back in March), but in the event I was at least able to return the CPU for a refund.
However, after some further research I started thinking about XEON options. It's a bit hard to pin down precise performance details as most reviews tend to cover dual-socket boards, whereas I was looking for single-socket data, but then I found this very interesting YT video about comparing a SandyBridge-EP XEON E5-2680 vs. the i9 7900X. The results convinced me a XEON would be a good alternative, all the more so because I quickly discovered the later 2680 v2 (stock image) was readily available at low prices, and it has two more cores plus a higher base clock. Even better, the v2 edition is based on IvyBridge-EP, thus it does support PCIe 3.0 and has the same IPC as IvyBridge CPUs like the 4930K.
The benchmark data I found suggested that a 2680 v2 would, for threaded tasks like rendering and video encoding, actually be faster than a 3930K @ 4.8GHz (a level of overclock that I had no hope of achieving back when this build still had a 3930K). Thus, compared to my target CB R15 performance level of 1100 I thought was possible with a 3930K @ 4.5GHz, using a 2680 v2 instead has resulted in a score of 1386, some 26% faster (and that's without optimised memory timings), which btw is faster than the latest Coffee Lake 8700K (it scores 1364 ). Another data point, the 2680 v2 scores 15.45 for CB 11.5, compared to 13.8 for a 3930K @ 4.8GHz, or 15.37 for the 8700K.
As it happens I'm working on several X79 builds at the moment, all of which are going to be used for various types of content creation, so I decided to change them all to the 2680 v2 (previously they had a mix of 3930K and 3970X CPUs, which I can sell off to help cover the cost of the XEON replacements); buying several XEONs reduced the unit price considerably, from 225 each down to 165.
Overall I am pleased with this final CPU choice. Since XEONs are normally not overclocked (there is an exception, the 1680 v2 which has an unlocked multiplier, but it's very hard to find and far too expensive), it means the system will be much more stable, the CPU load temperatures are far lower, hence less heat, and the fans can run at a low speed, so less noise and better long term reliability of both the AIO and the fans. It's wins all round, 8)
Thus, what's left to do now is to setup the AI Suite II software to more propely control all the various fan speeds based on thermals, optimise the memory timings (I'll probably end up with something like 8/9/9/24/2T), and install the SM951. Then that's it pretty much done. I was going to say I could post it before the end of October, but I am away at that time visiting family for a birthday, so more likely I'll post the system in early November. Hurrah! 8)
Before posting the system, I'll update this page with final performance info, etc. The data will be added to my main results page, so keep an eye out.
Family matters back in Aug held things up again. Anyway, back to it! Main thing is I decided at the end of August, what the heck, I may as well try and get hold of a 4930K as a final upgrade perk to the spec, give it proper PCIe 3.0, so the GTX 980s will run full speed and so will the PCIe SSD. I did obtain a 4930K but alas it's not working properly, fails to correctly recognise memory bank A (checked with other mbds and RAM to be sure). Alas the chip is out of warranty (ended in March, rats!), so atm I'm asking around to see if anyone can help with a replacement, ya never know. Here are a couple of BIOS pics:
The first image shows the system only recognising 24GB out of the 32GB installed RAM, the second showing the "Abnormal" DIMM slots (for those who've seen this issue before, in Windows the Properies panel of the PC will show the lower amount of RAM, while CPU-Z can see all the RAM). The CPU behaves the same way on some other X79 boards I checked with, and different RAM, so it's definitely the chip at fault. I contacted the original retail soure, they reckon the chip's IMC is bad. Anyway, hopefully I can find a replacement. Would be nice if the system was able to run the PCIe slots at 3.0 speed. I'll update later this week with more details.
Added the pics of the SM951, and benchmark results for the SSD tested on a different mbd using the same chipset.
Alas more delays due to family matters, but anyway, some major changes! 8)
As is probably evident from the previous update, I was rather frustrated at the Gigabyte debacle, re their beta BIOS trashing the original board. I did replace it with an Asrcck board and that worked ok, but really the Asrock Z68 Extreme7 is a bit OTT for a system like this (the Extreme7 is for more high-end gamers), and I'd rather keep the Asrock for some of the SATA testing I want to do.
A couple of weeks ago I had cause to upgrade a friend's X79 system, changing the existing ASUS P9X79 WS to the revised P9X79-E WS, and swapping the 3930K CPU for a 4930K. The source mbd, a system I built a while ago for CUDA testing, had 32GB RAM (8x4GB) which was moved onto the older board. Afterwards, I got thinking about the P9X79 WS and decided, what the heck, and a two-fingers up to the agents of mbd entropy, I'll fit it into the LE machine. I did have to follow the proper Microsoft procedure for reregistering the Win7 license, but that worked ok. Updating the drivers on the 840 Pro was fairly easy aswell. The system is now basically done hardware-wise, I just need to sort out the overclock.
Thus, the LE machine is now a 6-core 3930K system with 32GB 2133MHz RAM, on a far more professional board. This should mean better long term reliability. The board did not come with its original box, so no fancy pics of that, but I'll try and locate an original manual if I can. All the other components are the same, except there is now an additional 8cm Antec F8 fan for cooling the chipset near the main ATX power connector (I constructed a custom mounting so that it could be secured to two holes in the chassis frame; thin foam pads ensure it sits firmly on the DIMMs, but with a small gap to aid air flow).
One final change, just to poke an extra finger in the eyes of the mbd destruction gremlins: I've fitted a Samsung SM951 256GB PCIe NVMe SSD to act as the primary location for holding video data during editing. It may help with renders aswell. Either way, this will certainly remove any I/O bottlenecks from what the LE guys want to do. The SM951 does about 2GB/sec.
With the extra PCIe slots available on the P9X79 WS, I did consider sourcing a third GTX 980. However, given the thermal environment in which this system will be used, I figured that would be unwise. Thus, in the future, if the LE guys want faster CUDA performance, it makes more sense to just replace the 980s entirely with something better.
I'll add pictures of the changed/extra components over the new few days.
Sorry again for the lack of updates. A family bereavement back in mid-Feb meant I had to put this project aside for a while.
Over a period of weeks Gigabyte eventually asked me to try a beta BIOS they had for the mbd, but the BIOS broke the board, forcing it into an even worse on/off power cycle (even without the C500 fitted). I was dealing with the support people in Germany. They asked me to contact Gigabyte UK and request an RMA, explaining the circumstances. However, Gigabyte UK were not forthcoming, stating that the board was out of warranty, etc., basically ignoring the fact that their own staff had wrecked the board. They said they could do a BIOS reflash, but would charge a fee, shipping, and there wouldn't be any guarantee the board would be functional afterwards. Thus, after some mulling of options, I decided to forget the Gigabyte board entirely (I've changed the build details above, will add some pics of the mbd fitted inside the system next week).
I mentioned in the previous update that I had tested the C500 on an Asrock board and it worked ok. Hence, I have switched to using the Asrock board instead, though alas with two 980s fitted there is no room for the C500 because the 2nd 980 blocks the PCI slot. Thus, the C500 will no longer be a part of this build (info for it above has been removed). It was a nice idea to be able to include basic SD video capture, but I guess the LE guys can always obtain a PCIe capture card in the future if they wish (I didn't originally go for a PCIe card because all the reviews I read of such cards were distinctly unfavourable). Alternatively, they could fit a third GPU in the other main PCIe slot for additional CUDA.
So, the mbd in the system is now an Asrock Z68 Extreme7. This is a much higher end Z68 board than the Gigabyte model, but I suppose it means the overclock setup should work better. One advantage of the Asrock board is that it does have more SATA ports, hence the PCIe SATA3 option card is no longer required (details above removed).
Since the C500 is no longer a factor, the main remaining task is to sort out the overclock configuration, which I will do during the next two weeks, conducting extensive testing to ensure stability.
Apologies for the absence of updates, alas family matters took up much of my time after the xmas break, and such matters are still ongoing. However, at the moment I'm still in discussions with Gigabyte, hoping they will supply a custom BIOS to support the C500 PCI card, so things are a tad on hold anyway.
Gigabyte asked if I could test a different Z68 board and indeed I did so, using an Asrock Z68 Extreme7 (it has one PCI slot), on which the C500 card worked perfectly ok. Hence, I know there is no general incompatibility between the C500 and Z68 chipsets, something Gigabyte initially suggested might be an issue. Instead, it is far more likely to be a BIOS support issue specific to the Gigabyte board, as described by the user absic on the Gigabyte Forum.
Thus, it boils down to whether Gigabyte are willing to supply a custom BIOS to support the C500 card. If they do, then great, the system would then basically be ready, I just need to finalise the overclock, the OS setup (software for the C500, disk config, backup), etc. If however Gigabyte say they can't supply a custom BIOS, then I'll have to use the Asrock board instead; I'm not sure atm what this would mean for the spec I've so far been going with, since the Asrock board has a very different PCIe slot layout, ie. it may not be able to utillise two GPUs without blocking the PCI slot. It would certainly mean a further delay re having to swap out the parts, and of course redoing the driver setup. Anyway, I'll see what happens. Hopefully I'll hear back from Gigabyte by the end of this week.
Meanwhile, I sold a couple of items from the for-sale list! Yay! My thanks to Mr. Andrew Heath. 8)
Run into a bit of a hitch with the build atm. If I try to fit the C500 PCI capture card into either of the PCI slots, when the power button is pressed there is a brief moment of activity before the system immediately shuts off again. No idea why, still looking into it. I've checked the C500 PCI card with a different system (old P55 setup) and it works ok, so it's not the C500 itself. Maybe something in the BIOS, or a mbd short somewhere. Feel free to email me if you've any thoughts!
Apart from the above though, the rest of the hardware is in place, including the PCIe SATA3 card. Not yet sorted out the CPU overclock, but the system is running ok. Need to read up on the Gigabyte BIOS setup, I'm too used to doing this with ASUS boards, though I should be able to more or less copy the settings I use for ASUS M4E boards with a 2700K.
I am in the process of installing Win7/Pro/64bit at the moment. The front and side fans are installed. Next up is fitting the sound insulation to the side panels.
I won a second GTX 980 Reference card! See ebay item 182372137418.
Happy to report I've obtained a GTX 980 with Reference cooler. 8) See eBay item 282221326067.
Alas some critical family events prevented me from working on this build during most of September and continues to be an issue at the moment into October (as I type this, I'm away helping an elderly relative with care issues). However, I should be able to get stuck into it again during the second half of October.
On the positive side, the delay has meant that in the meantime the typical selling prices of used GTX 980s has come down further, so I've decided to aim for a 980 as the primary GPU instead of a 970 (it does mean the overall cost is a bit higher, but the extra performance is worth it). In a similar manner, although I'll proceed on the assumption that the seondary GPU will be a GTX 580, if I can sort out a used 780 Ti instead (or a 2nd 980) then I will (ie. selling two 580s should cover the cost). The latter is 2X faster than a 580, and uses less power, so it's a worthy change if I can do it. The 580 is still a very good card for CUDA (two of them beat a Titan) and in some cases are a better choice for certain tasks than the non-Titan 700s because the 580 is strong for 64bit CUDA (eg. pro audio processing exploits FP64). However, this isn't certain yet, but there is time. I've listed the 580s for-sale below, and I'll post adverts for them next week.
I'm getting close to bagging the primary GPU! A Palit Jetstream 970 sold for 132 on eBay today, which is the cheapest 970 I've seen so far; I didn't bid btw because it's not a model which has an external exhaust cooler. As more people upgrade to newer cards, the supply of 970s is rising rapidly, so I'm sure it won't be long before I can win a 970 with a reference cooler for a sensible sum (strangely, people seem to bid more for models with reference coolers, no idea why given they normally have lower core clocks).
Meanwhile, having originally obtained a Micron C400 256GB SSD for the backup of the C- drive, I unexpectedly managed to win a second 840 Pro 256GB for an even lower price than the first, so to heck with the Micron, the backup unit will also be an 840 Pro! It's obviously best to use identical models if possible, so I'm pleased with this. The extra 840 Pro did cost 5 more than the Micron, but it's worth it.
I was away for most of August, now off for a short 4-day break, back again as normal on Sep. 12th. In the meantime though I was able to secure the SSDs for the C-drive and backup drive, pictures of which I've added above.
Minor update: I'm away at the moment dealing with a family matter. In the meantime, I've added the pictures above.
I have put most of the system together, using one of my own GTX 980s as a temporary GPU, and a temporary 120GB SSD just for testing (the trays to hold the SSDs are not yet fitted, I won't do that until the final SSDs have been obtained).
Because the GTX 580 does need one 8pin power connector, I decided the 850W PSU I was originally going to use was not suitable. One could use molex splitter adapters to feed a PCIe power link, but I'd rather not do that. Better to have proper PCIe power feeds if possible. The 1kW version of the Toughpower has enough PCIe ports to supply at least three GPUs that each need two power inputs, so there is also scope for future expansion.
The GTX 580 itself though is not yet fitted. This is best left until after the initial OS install is finished (of course later I switched the plan to 980s, but despite this I decided to stick with the better PSU).
I've not yet fitted the PCIe x1 SATA3 card either. I'll do this once all the main Windows drivers and updates have been installed.
The front fans are not attached atm, this comes next.
RamSan 440: The peak of storage tech in 2008, and costing $275000 when new, this unit employs 512GB of DDR2 DRAM to provide 4.5GB/sec sustained I/O and 600,000 IOPS, with an access latency of less than 15 micro seconds (much quicker than an SSD). It also includes 512GB of RAID-protected Flash to provide continuous backup (it's actually over 680GB, but about a third is used for supreme over-provisioning). The unit can be connected via up to eight 4Gbit FibreChannel ports (or four Infiniband ports), and includes fully redundant N+1 PSUs/fans. Ideal for critical 24/7 data, databases, low latency transaction data, metadata, etc. Still very potent! Peak power usage is 650W, 4U size for 19" rackmount, max weight 90lbs. Looks like this. Here's a detailed PDF, plus a 2008 article from The Register, and an article from Reactive Data. My thanks to Rob Bone at XSNet for donating this item to help with the build.
KEY: NYS = Not Yet Sold DONATION CREDITS: Amount Name (with permission) Nekochan ID (if any) Donation Raised (UKP) Rob Bone at XSNet (USA) - RamSan 440 Storage Unit NYS Jeb Mayers jebmayers Some older PC GPUs NYS Michael Pagel thegoldbug Direct. 50 Jonathan Mortimer - Direct. 25 ITEMS SOLD CREDITS (waiting for each buyer to tell me if they'd like to be credited): Amount Name (with permission) Nekochan ID (if any) Item(s) Sold Raised (UKP) Andrew Heath - James May's Toy Stories DVD 5 Andrew Heath - Hitch Hikers 5-book box set 10 Mark Davies uunix 128MB RAM kit for SGI Indy 25 Dirk Twisk twix 3x 64MB RAM kit for SGI Indigo 21 Raphael Vallotton BetXen 128MB RAM kit for SGI Indy 25 Raphael Vallotton BetXen Colour-faded IndyCam 5 Alexander Tafarte xiri 128MB RAM kit for SGI Indy 20 Alexander Tafarte xiri 128MB RAM kit for SGI Indy 17 Frank Everdij dexter1 128MB RAM kit for SGI Indy 15 Frank Everdij dexter1 64MB RAM kit for SGI Indy 5 Alexander Tafarte xiri 64MB RAM kit for SGI Indy 5 Christian Neubert FlasBurn 2x 1GB RAM kit for SGI Fuel 30